The Opera Glasses Podcast

Canadian Coloratura: Tracy Dahl

• Michael Jones, Elizabeth Bowman • Season 4 • Episode 4

Share episode

A mountain hotel, a piano in the lounge, and two lovers who return in disguise with beards worthy of an NFB classic – Mozart has never felt more Canadian. We invited coloratura icon Tracy Dahl to share how a beloved trickster like Despina changes when the artist brings more life to the stage, and why comedy lands best when the ensemble breathes as one.

The stories are wild, but the craft is precise. Tracy takes us inside her infamous Lucia di Lammermoor night in San Francisco – an emergency call, costume chaos, a first step from her son, and a knock on the dressing room door from Joan Sutherland. She breaks down the mad scene’s E-flat, explaining why she chooses to ride the phrase in one breath rather than stop, and what that decision reveals about breath, line, and respecting your own instrument. We also revisit her unscheduled Met debut as Adele, where readiness, language clarity, and a sense of direction – literally – made all the difference.

Between performances, Tracy has helped turn Winnipeg into a vibrant hub for emerging singers. We talk about teaching that stays close to the industry, and then we head back to Così fan tutte in Vancouver: a witty staging set at a grand Canadian hotel, an onstage piano as continuo, local flavor woven through surtitles, and disguises that wink at national folklore. With a cast that feels like family, the rehearsal room becomes a masterclass in timing, listening and trust – the real fuel behind great Mozart ensembles.

All episodes of The Opera Glasses podcast are hosted by the editor of Opera Canada, currently Michael Jones after Elizabeth Bowman hosted seasons 1 and 2. Follow Opera Canada on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Visit OperaCanada.ca for all of your Canadian Opera news and reviews.

Michael Jones:

Hello and welcome to the Opera Glasses Podcast, the official podcast of Opera Canada Magazine. I'm Michael Jones, your host, and today it's a great honor to be speaking with Tracy Dahl. Collar Terror Soprano, Tracy Dahl, is truly one of the legends of Canadian opera. She has been singing for more years than I think either one of us wishes to count at this moment.

Tracy Dahl:

To count them all.

Michael Jones:

And has sung all over the world. But currently she is in Vancouver rehearsing for a new production of Cosy Fantute, where she plays Despina once again. So welcome, Tracy, and thank you for joining us today.

Tracy Dahl:

My pleasure.

Michael Jones:

Before we start, I'm going to mention that today's podcast is actually being sponsored by LA Opera's official podcast, Behind the Curtain. It's a podcast series that looks deeply at the creative process with the artists, creatives, and scholars who bring opera to life. Decode the drama, dissect the music, and hear the heart behind the high notes. With Tracy, we have lots of high notes. It includes backstage laughs and history-making moments. Every opera starts with a story. LA Opera's Behind the Curtain is streaming wherever you listen to podcasts, and new episodes drop every Tuesday. Having done the official business, welcome again, Tracy. And thank you so much for joining us. I had the real pleasure of hearing you sing Despina. Uh years ago at the Canadian Opera Company, you had taken some time off for your health. And I think it was your first role back after that time.

Tracy Dahl:

It was, I think, the first opera that I did coming back for sure. And it was lovely to have the vote of confidence from the COC. Um when I had to withdraw from Nixon in China. I am now 14 years well. So very, very happy to be on this side of it. But that was a lovely offer to have them to have extended to me, like, you know, you're back and we want you back. So I really appreciate them thinking of me, Roberto and the company. That was really wonderful. And it's been a delightful role ever since. I've been singing it all over the place. So she's a she's great fun and you know, ageless.

Michael Jones:

Absolutely ageless. Um, you're currently in rehearsal in Vancouver to do Despina again in another production at Vancouver Opera, running from February 7th to February 15th. Check it out at VancouverOpera.ca. But do you remember your very first Despina?

Tracy Dahl:

I remember the first time we did I did scenes from Despina. That was in Wolf Trap. Um, and Wolf Trap was like a is it is a training program. Uh I was had done Marila and then I did Wolf Trap. It was my first place where I sang Susanna, my first Olympia, and then um the scenes, they had a scenes night. And so uh they we did the sex tet, I believe, from COZI. And the following year, or within two years for sure, I was singing it in Washington, DC. Oh, that's amazing.

Michael Jones:

Was it a nice production in Washington?

Tracy Dahl:

It was the Pennell production. That may not mean a lot to some people, but to for me, the pictures came in and it was Teresa Stratus singing Despina, and your hair is all disheveled and she has bedroom slippers on, and she kind of she definitely had a a vibe, a real real personality. And I could certainly do that production even better now than I did then because Despina has can you can do Despina as being, you know, as the same age as the girls, kind of grease, Rizzo versus Sandy. You know, or you can do it like this, which is someone who's more lived a little bit and wiser and you know, oh yeah, you're you all just have these idealized ideas of what love is like. Let me tell you what it's really like.

Michael Jones:

And do you enjoy this version now that you've come back and you're doing it? Has that mature lived experience come to Despina?

Tracy Dahl:

Oh, I think she's a lot of fun, kind of either way. And I don't really feel so much that you're that the age has anything to do with it, but definitely there's there's something a little bit more earthy and well-lived, um, if you will, uh, about a Despina who is, you know, of a certain age. And it was, I mean, when I came back to the COC, if I was to say, aside from a spectacular production, singing with Sir Thomas Allen Allen was absolutely um a memory of a lifetime. Getting to sing with him was amazing.

Michael Jones:

And he was an amazing singer, but he was uh I remember that production quite well, and he was I think he had a very he was very fortunate to have you as a scene partner. I think the two of you worked beautifully together.

Tracy Dahl:

You guys have got something going on. And uh we've kept in touch all these years and we write back and forth, and um yeah, it was it was very special for me because I hadn't sung Despina in a very long time. I sang it at the beginning of my career. I think the last time I had sung it was in Dallas, maybe, and it was Carol Van Esse and Suzanne Mencer, like it was an stellar cast, just stellar. So it would been a long time. And for anybody who saw the COC production, especially the first version, it was a long night because we did everything and no recit, very few recits were cut. So to be able to do Reset with someone who's lived with it, it was amazing.

Michael Jones:

That's that sounds really exciting. Now we'll come back to Despina because I do want to talk about the production of Vancouver. But one of the roles that I always think of, and maybe you don't, but I always consider it one of your signatures was certainly Lucia. And among the first times I heard you speak, you actually told a story about meeting Joan Sutherland and being involved when you were singing Lucia. Could you share that with our listeners?

Tracy Dahl:

Sure. Um so it the place was San Francisco, the year was 1998, and you go, well, why can't I just pull that year out? Because it was the year my son was born. So it was actually we were it was 99. It was 99 because Jaden turned one. I had been in San Francisco singing Balo, I had opened the season uh as Oscar and Balo, and they asked me if I could come back and cover Lucia for the first four uh performances and then sing the last three. And I said yes, but this was all happening the week before the opening. So I I came home, got my score, let our family have a little time together, turned around and went back to San Francisco. And I woke up the day after I arrived to a message saying that Ruth Ann had canceled, and that we had and that they needed me to sing that evening. And of course, I it was just a crazy day of what do you need? And I said, I need a babysitter. I need a babysitter, so uh that was the first thing, and then we worked out costumes and they flew in my costume from Calgary because they needed something right away, so they expressed my costume from Calgary because it was the one I'd worn five years ago. I hadn't sung the role in five years, I had not even really had much time to sing it because of being trying to get ready, like still singing Balo. They're not the same thing. Um and the reason I met Sutherland is because her husband was conducting. And they were together, and I was in my dressing room getting my hair done. I had a fantastic uh hair and makeup person, and he was with me when there was a little knock on the door, and this lovely voice on the other side, may I come in? And I said yes, and in walks Joan Sutherland. And she's she said, Um, Ricky will be here in just a minute. Um, he loves evenings like this. I'm so looking forward to it. He'll be here shortly, and the makeup artist is rubbing my back, going, he's like, breathe, breathe, breathe. And it already was kind of a tumultuous night. Like, you know, you're you're just going through the day. They're trying to take you on the set, walk you through all the blocking, meet some of the colleagues. I think they introduced me that tenor came in in the afternoon so I could meet him, uh, but not the baritone, not the bass, just the tenor. Um so it was, it was just just craziness. And my son, just before I left, just before I left for the theater, took his first step.

Michael Jones:

Oh, how wonderful.

Tracy Dahl:

And I said, you know, if you can do that, I can do this. And it wasn't my it, I wasn't the only person having a first night. It was also the prompter's first night. And her first night prompting a show in San Francisco Opera, and Lucia, the leading lady, is out. And she's never met me. She doesn't know what I'm gonna do. She doesn't know. She was amazing. I shook her hand at the end of the performance. Um, it was a remarkable evening. I I cherish the memory. And backstage afterwards, Joan Sutherland came across the stage to me and gave me a hug, and she said, Well, this is the tallest and the smallest, Lucia. And she was very sweet. She said, You really understood her. And that was a very high compliment coming from her.

Michael Jones:

That's a really, really high compliment. Uh certainly she sang Lucia many, many, many times and quite famously. A little intimidating, one might say. Exactly. And she, when she sang it, would often have been conducted by her husband. Of course. What was it like singing Lucia with him conducting? Was was he was he ex was he expecting you to deliver her Lucia? Was he a partner who could go with what you were doing at the time?

Tracy Dahl:

There was only one moment where we didn't do the same thing. He was very attentive. I must have had a rehearsal with the flautist so that that could happen.

Michael Jones:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Tracy Dahl:

I mean that that like I remember that part. The only time where he he just did what he was used to Joan doing um was at the end. Da da da da da dum dum to the E flat. And I don't like to stop. And Joan liked to stop, like railroad track, everybody stops, orchestra stops, and then she go bum bum. For me, it was da da da da da da all in one breath. I didn't even stop. And uh so that I left him in the dirt. I was I was singing the E flat. Like, I'm I'm not stopping. Um it's uh it's it's just the way I done it, and it was something that hadn't we had never had a chance to do any of it together. So it was just what he was anticipating, people wanting a break, wanting to set up for that high note, and because of the nature of my instrument, it's better not to uh overweight that and just keep going. But uh it was it was fun.

Michael Jones:

It sounds like it was fun. Um, any other roles in particular or performances that you remember?

Tracy Dahl:

Oh gosh. My debut at the Met was unscheduled, so I certainly remember that as well.

Michael Jones:

What was your debut?

Tracy Dahl:

Adele. Oh. Yeah, at Christmas, New Year's, New Year just after Christmas just after Christmas?

Michael Jones:

It wasn't that's that would be terrifying to me because my first question is with German or English dialogue? English dialogue, German text. German singing.

Tracy Dahl:

German singing, yeah.

Michael Jones:

Yeah. Uh and was it at least a libretto, a script in English that you knew before? Because you're subbing in.

Tracy Dahl:

Um well, I had been there uh for a week or ten days being blocked in, so I knew it and had rehearsed it. But I also had just been sick the weekend myself as well. And I had just come back from the doctor's office and he'd said, You're fine, you can sing, go ahead. And there was a message on my phone when I got back saying our artist is canceled. Can you please confirm for us that you will perform tonight? And he said, We can find someone else to do it if you don't feel comfortable. And I was like, No, that's what you hired me to do. I'll do it. But I had no idea how to get from the dressing room to the stage. I had never been backstage, so I didn't know. And so their question, is there anything you can do for us? Is there anything we can do for you? And I said, Show me how to get to the stage. I don't know, I don't know where it is.

Michael Jones:

Another Winnipeg Soprano make her debut at the Met in a role she was covering, too. Isn't that how Andreana Chuchman sang? Yes, it is.

Tracy Dahl:

Yes, yes, and we've both sung Valenciennes at the Met with the same with the same uh Madame Glouari.

Michael Jones:

Wow. With Susan Graham. That's yeah, yeah.

Tracy Dahl:

I went to hear that. That I was like, I've got to hear that.

Michael Jones:

That's that's really amazing. There now you Winnipeg has become a real hotbed, I think, for emerging singers. And I think a lot of that credit also goes to you. Tracy is an instructor in voice at the University of Manitoba in Winnipeg. And in recent years, a number of students have gone through her studio and have really had careers that are of note. And I like to talk about the sopranos of Winnipeg, but of course there are other voice types that come out, but there are just so many sopranos that I think about coming from Winnipeg. What has it been like transitioning to teaching and doing more teaching as you go on? Is it something that you enjoy?

Tracy Dahl:

I do. I enjoy it a lot. It actually began the year before Jaden was born. So that San Francisco opera job, I would have left my teaching post to go and do that. I couldn't tell you now who subbed for me then, but it began kind of in in in and around when I was thinking about having a family and wanting to have an alternate, you know. Um not many colorators of with my voice type get to sing into their 60s. And so I didn't know what that career trajectory would look like. So this opportunity came in to teach because my niece, uh Stacy Nattress, who um Brown, who sings the Anthems for the Jets games, she um was in the school and her teacher had moved on to another university, and she said, They asked me to ask you. And I went, Oh, well, that's crazy. Sure, why not? So it kind of was a happy coincidence that they needed somebody and I had had a cancellation from Houston Grand Opera, so I was I stepped in and started teaching. And I've been doing that mostly as a sessional teacher for most of my career, and then the last four or five years have been full-time, but I still am allowed to leave and do my creative work, which is wonderful, and I think it's good for the students too, because then I'm very aware of what's going on in the industry right now, not just, oh, well, my career was like this. It's I actually see what's going on and hear the young people who are singing, enjoy performing with them, learning from them. And what I find is I think that teaching has really kept my mind agile, fresh, new ways of thinking about things, explaining things. I'm singing every day because I I don't just sit at the piano and say, try this. I actually am using my voice and singing, coloring it different ways to help them kind of matching their color of sound, which is kind of useful when you have to make up voices like the doctor and the notary. It's like, trust me, none of them sound like my notary. Oh, I'm nobody sounds like that. That would be a good thing. I I do, I enjoy it very much.

Michael Jones:

Good. And one of the things that that I know is that you actually work with young singers as well. You are you are someone who is still performing, obviously, but but you work with young singers. I know about a year or so ago you were doing Wolf songs, I think, with Clarence Fraser, the the maritone. Yeah um What is it like when you work with people who are the age of or slight just slightly older than your students?

Tracy Dahl:

It's inspiring, it's fun, it's fun, it's it's all creative, right? It's all being in that creative space and being willing to think outside the box or decide that boxes don't exist, right? So relationships are relationships. Uh you can look at the Wolf that we were singing was the Italian Italienische Buchelida. Good thing I don't have to sing that. I only I don't have to sing that, I only have to say it. And so that's a relationship between a man and a woman, and how that relationship. Moves throughout these 42, 45 songs. And it could easily be the graduate. Right? You could take that and turn it into the graduate. And um Flip Side was very clever. They had artist drawings, and the drawings were to try to be more gender neutral. Instead of it being a man and a woman fighting, they had it be it, they had it be Italian food and German food. And they were different foods that everybody would recognize, and they were like fighting these foods or fighting or making love, whatever it happened to be. And uh, which is exactly what the song cycle is like. And I think it's completely doable. I know that there are times when I've done like kunagonda in candide, and sometimes you kind of go, ah, I'm playing an 18-year-old or a 17-year-old or a 14-year-old. And it's like, well, what the heck am I supposed to do? That's what was written for my voice type. And a lot of opera, most women in opera are playing people who are not their age. You know, Juliet's. There's nobody out there who's actually Juliet's age. So it's it has to kind of be shed, that that layer has to be shed, so that it can just be about the words, about the relationship, and then it can move forward.

Michael Jones:

Well, I think that I mean, opera's about storytelling and sharing and and examining what those stories are. And I actually think that what a mature artist can bring to those roles is that life experience and and things like that. Now you're singing a lot of Jaspina right now, you said. Um, are there other roles that you still want to sing that you'd new roles or roles that you want to revisit and sing again?

Tracy Dahl:

That's super interesting. I remember a couple of

Speaker:

years ago. I don't I'm trying to think back when that was that I kind of went, I've sung everything on my bucket list. And then I someone said, better make a new bucket list.

Michael Jones:

I was going to suggest maybe you need a new bucket list.

Tracy Dahl:

A new bucket list.

Michael Jones:

Um time for Anne True love, maybe.

Tracy Dahl:

Oh Bolly, there you go. That's one I hadn't thought of. Um that's a lot of work. That's a lot of counting. That's a lot of counting. But there's, you know, I have been very blessed. I've been very blessed to have sung as many of the roles that I wished to and have enjoyed and loved. I have always wanted to sing Baby Doe when I actually did, in circumstances of replacing someone who had to depart the show. That was just, you know, it's not done very often here in Canada. So to get the chance to do it was really terrific. And playing a real person and digging into her history and all of that storytelling was phenomenal. I wonder about, like, I think if I had a role maybe on my my kind of haven't done yet list would be the um Ophelia in the Atoma Hamlet. I've done the Aria and did it recently, not too long ago, for Calgary's um anniversary season for their 50th. And I really just wanted to push myself and go, I can do this, I want to sing this. And it's a really cool piece of music, so many different characterizations and mood places for her to go that I thought I wanted to give that a go. And so we pulled that out and it was fun. So, but I have never sung the full opera. I've only done I've done the duet and I've done the aria.

Michael Jones:

And it's it's a big role though, but but speaking of Jones Hutherland, she did her debut in that role very later in her life because I think she did it at the Canadian Opera Company, and I'm going to say it was in the 80s when she debuted the role.

Tracy Dahl:

Well, there you go.

Michael Jones:

So it was not something she said. So there's still anybody who's listening and wants to do uh Tomas Hamlet, Gracie's ready for the call. And while while we're pushing producers, uh opera producers, I would love for you to have an opportunity to revisit as a mature woman La Fe in Centrillon. Interesting. I have a I have a a strong affection for the Massinier repertoire and for the French repertoire, but I also think it would be interesting to see the fairy godmother who really was the age of a parent, the who could care for and who could care for Cinderella that way. Now you've sung Lafitte.

Tracy Dahl:

Yes, I did. I sang it in Washington as well. Um, that's DC. It was Federica von Stade and um Susan Metzer. And I swear, I would, I would, I'd say to flick, I say, anything you want. I'll give you anything you want. Like I would not have been a good fairy godmother or mother. I would just said yes. You can have it, whatever you want.

Michael Jones:

Well, I think that's part of her, isn't it?

Tracy Dahl:

It was a beautiful production. Mario conducted, Mario Bernardi conducted, and it was Brian McDonald's production. So just a stunning, stunning production. And it's so like her character was very generous and and kind. Um, I have noticed the productions that I see now, they tend to make her a little bit more bossy. And I don't know. I just I think she should, I think they get it right in Cinderella. I think she should be, you know, she should be more kind, like like the bibbity-bobbity-boo.

Michael Jones:

So now let's let's talk about the production of Cosy in Vancouver. Um, this is a very Canadian production. What can you tell us about it?

Tracy Dahl:

Oh, I don't want to give away all the jokes. Um uh Sheldon Johnson from Manitoba Opera came up with this idea and pitched it to Rob Harriet. And Rob Harriet gave him an idea like that, and he's gonna run uh a mile. The setting would be like if you were at one of the famous hotels in any of our cities, but this one happens to be set in the mountains, so that's gonna make people feel like they're at Chateau Lake Louise or the Banks Springs Hotel. Funny fact, but there's the harpsichord instead of being in the pit, is a piano on the stage. So it's like there's a uh a lounge with a bar, and there's a piano in the bar. And that's basically what my aunt did at the Lake Louise, uh at Lake Louise, and that's where she met her husband.

Michael Jones:

That's amazing.

Tracy Dahl:

Yeah, so I think it's kind of fun. It feels very, very real to me. The two girls are Italians who on their first big trip away from home and they meet RCMP officers, the mounted police in full regalia. They fall in love with them. They are sh they are sent off on a mission, I'll say. Um, and I won't say the mode of transportation, but maybe people can guess. And um, they come back in disguise as a very well-known NFB film. All right, can you can you guess what that is? No, and I'm almost the log whaltes. Oh do you know what I mean?

Michael Jones:

Yeah, the the people who who sort of ride the logs. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker:

So yeah, so that's what they come back as. So very earthy, very yeah. So that's who they come back as. With great beards and yeah. So it's I think it it they changed the surtitles to fit whatever city they happen to be in. So when what it was in Winnipeg, they they were had were being sent off to Moose Jaw. Um, and so uh you you'll get the like it isn't a direct translation of what we're saying, but the idea or the proximity of place, that's what we're getting at, right? It doesn't really matter. I'm not gonna say moose jaw, um, but I think it's it's there's actually Canada in one of the songs. Did you know that in Causey? The voice Canada is mentioned in the rest in one of the songs of Cozy.

Tracy Dahl:

Yeah.

Michael Jones:

I didn't know that at all. And I love Cozy, but now I'm now I'm going to go and look for that.

Tracy Dahl:

Yeah, it's one of the, I think it's one of it's one of the baritones areas that's sometimes cut.

Michael Jones:

Okay. And now you are you did this production before when it was done in Winnipeg. Um did anyone else return from that original production, or is it all Jamie Groot, who's playing Cortoligi, was in that production. You have a lovely young cast of the four the two young couples are Jamie Groot, Alex Hetherington, Clarence Fraser, and Owen McCosland. Is that right?

Tracy Dahl:

Correct. Correct. And they're so talented and so tall. But not as tall as Dan O'Coolid.

Michael Jones:

He is your your Don Alfonso.

Tracy Dahl:

Yeah, and believe it or not, it is his first cozy. He did not ever sing uh Gluyelmo. He never did.

Michael Jones:

Oh, that's interesting.

Tracy Dahl:

Yeah. So it's really fun. He's very fresh in it, and he's so delightfully funny and always looking for things to do. We're we had a blast. We did the last show we did together was the Golden Ticket in St. Louis, and it was so much fun. So it's really delightful to work with him again as well. Uh Jamie is a new mom, has a six-month-old baby, so we get in we get to see the baby a couple times a day, which is delightful.

Michael Jones:

Which is a lovely way to do, you know, to have rehearsals. Well, and to feel like a family. I mean, as much as practically anything I can think of is really an ensemble opera, like all six of those, there's there's only really the six roles, and all of them are equal in so many ways. You know, they all have opportunities to shine. There's beautiful ensembles, those trios. It's wonderful.

Tracy Dahl:

Yeah.

Michael Jones:

And it feels like family?

Tracy Dahl:

It does. There, I believe Clarence and Owen were in the COC Ensemble together at the same time. Alex is a more recent graduate. Um, I've worked with all, I've worked with Clarence and Alex in other programs that they've been in, uh, training programs. So uh Calgary Opera and the COC Ensemble. And Manitoba Opera Deep, which is the digital emerging artist program. So uh Alex was in that and at the COC. So I've I've worked with them both as as mentors, teachers, but now I'm their colleague and it's great fun.

Michael Jones:

And that's something I'm sensing that's something that you you really enjoy, that that's part, that that's part of doing the show for you is building that ensemble, that family. Is that true?

Tracy Dahl:

Yeah, I, you know, when I did Magic Flute, I never really enjoyed it because you're just by yourself. You're so removed from everything. And when you're in a show like this, it really is a, you know, like think about volleyball. There are six people on the court, and that's what this is like. And who's bumping, who's setting, who's smashing, who's doing what. And it moves around, who's serving, and everybody has a chance to have the ball, and you can never be disengaged. You always have to be engaged, and so that art of listening is really, really important, and that participation where it's just you're so in tune with each other that you know what's going on. And when comedy is done well, it's rehearsed to a point where there's a freedom in it, but a very strong sense of trust amongst each other. And that's what can help it bloom and be a lot of fun for everybody who's watching, too.

Michael Jones:

And that I think I'm going, I think we'll end there because that is the memory of you that I want people to have. Who is that? Well, I the first time I met you, Tracy, was in Regina. I was living in Regina, I was the CEO at the at the Saskatchewan Arts Board, and you had come to do a concert version of Candide with the Regina Symphony. So you had sung Kunagonda, Gordon Girard conducted it was a lovely cast. It was a beautiful, beautiful concert. Um, and I met you in the lobby afterwards. And to be fair, anybody who had just sung Cunagonda has every right to be exhausted and know what. And you were just so warm and giving and welcoming to everyone that I saw you speak with that night. That's very kind. And so that memory of you finding that community in a cast and working that way, I think that's the memory of you that people should take away from this because I think that's who you are, Tracy.

Tracy Dahl:

That's very kind. Thank you.

Michael Jones:

Thank you so much for joining us today. It's it's really a treat to hear your stories.

Tracy Dahl:

You're very welcome.

Michael Jones:

And I would like to thank everyone who's listened to this podcast. Once again, I also owe thanks to LA Opera's Behind the Curtain, which which sponsored this episode of the Opera Glasses Podcast. Behind the Curtain is uh streaming wherever you listen to podcasts, so you can click right over to it right now, and they drop a new episode every Tuesday. Once again, I'm Michael Jones for Opera Canada magazine and Opera Glasses. Thank you so much for listening.