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The Opera Glasses Podcast
Hosted for Season one and two by Elizabeth Bowman, former Editor-in-Chief of Opera Canada. Season three will be hosted by Michael Jones, the new Editorial Director of Opera Canada. This is a place to hold discussions about the opera business that are tougher to editorialize in print and to expand on the current whims of the business.
The Opera Glasses Podcast
Celebrating the Opera Canada Archives: A Conversation with Joseph So
What happens when you bring together a 30-year veteran opera journalist and the complete archives of Canada's longest-running arts magazine? Magic, memories, and an unforgettable journey through operatic history.
Joseph So, who has been writing for Opera Canada since 1995, takes listeners on a captivating tour through his remarkable career interviewing the greatest singers of our time. From his first transformative opera experience seeing Renata Tabaldi in La Gioconda at the Met in 1967 to his recent interview with Gerald Finley, So's encyclopedic memory and genuine passion for the art form shine throughout this conversation.
The podcast coincides with Opera Canada's monumental launch of its complete digital archives spanning over 65 years of continuous publication. As So recounts his friendship with magazine founder Ruby Mercer, we glimpse the personal connections that have shaped Canadian opera history. His poignant stories about interviewing Maureen Forrester as she battled dementia and his tribute to soprano Erin Wall following her tragic death showcase the human dimension of this magnificent art form.
Perhaps most delightfully, So shares candid insights about the temperaments of different voice types, confessing that while tenors might be "great to the ear," they often prove the most challenging interview subjects. This blend of reverence for the art and honest behind-the-scenes perspective makes this episode essential listening for anyone who loves opera or appreciates the dedication of those who document our cultural heritage.
All episodes of The Opera Glasses podcast are hosted by the editor of Opera Canada, currently Michael Jones after Elizabeth Bowman hosted seasons 1 and 2. Follow Opera Canada on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Visit OperaCanada.ca for all of your Canadian Opera news and reviews.
Hello and welcome to the Opera Glasses podcast, the official podcast of Opera Canada magazine. This is the beginning of our fourth season of Opera Glasses and we're really pleased to have you listen to us today. For those of you who haven't met me, my name is Michael Jones. I'm the editorial director of Opera Canada magazine and I'm proud to be the host of the Opera Glasses podcast. And this is a really exciting week for Opera Canada magazine when we're releasing this podcast, because on Thursday, september 25th, after about a two-year project that was begun by the last editor-in-chief, elizabeth Bowman, working with then-chair Eva Innes, we are launching the full archives of Opera Canada magazine 65-plus years of publishing Opera Canada magazine. Publishing Opera Canada magazine, we are the longest continuously publishing arts magazine in the country and it's an incredible resource of how this art form has developed and changed in this country since 1960. So we will be releasing that on Thursday, september 25th on Patreon. The Patreon address is patreoncom slash opera canada. So we hope that you will be joining us as a member of our Patreon.
Speaker 1:And if you listen to the end of this podcast, there's a special deal I'll tell you about, but in order to celebrate the opening of the archives, I wanted to speak to one of the writers for Opera Canada who has, quite frankly, been with us the longest.
Speaker 1:I think he's been writing for the magazine now for over 30 years. He was also one of the first writers that I met, both over Zoom and in person, when I began working at Opera Canada magazine, and he's somebody that I love speaking with. Joseph so has an almost encyclopedic memory of having seen operatic performances for years and years and years. His living room is a treasure trove of memorabilia. I'll say it that way, joseph a treasure trove of memorabilia. Photos of all of the divas he's interviewed, or at least some of the divas he's interviewed, signed with wishing him all the best. He has been beloved by many in this community and I. Just as we celebrate the release of the archives and all the history, it seemed fitting that we speak today with Joseph so and that he shares some of his memories with us. So welcome, joseph, to Opera Glasses.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, michael. Thank you for having me. First of all, yes, I'm a writer, I'm a retired academic and all that, but above all else, I am a fan, and I have been a fan since I attended my first live opera in January 1967.
Speaker 1:In. January 1967, Joseph.
Speaker 2:Yes, maybe you weren't born yet.
Speaker 1:I was born. I admit to being born in 2004. But no, I had just been born. What was that first opera that you saw?
Speaker 2:It was something that I had never heard of before. It was La Gioconda At the Met. I was a student. I remember Ponchielli it's not an opera that's done very much and then I remember, you know, some of my classmates wanted to go to opera, so we sat in the guards. You know the family circle, upper family circle, and I remember, when the opera opens, the prima donna and Gioconda and her mother, la Checa, comes on the stage. Before they opened their mouth, the audience erupted Brava, bravissima. I said what is this? And then, well, I became a fan, a lifelong fan, since January 1967. And the prima donna was Renata Tabaldi.
Speaker 1:Wow, tabaldi was in the first opera that you saw.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I became a big Tabaudi fan over the years. In fact, I don't know, do I have it here? I actually have a Tabaudi CD that was my, you know because of me, because it was my tape. Anyway, never mind, let's focus on Canada.
Speaker 1:We will move on from the Met and move into your memories of opera in Canada and of will move on from the Met and move into your memories of opera in Canada and of Opera Canada magazine. So think back. Your first article, Joseph, was in 1995, I think. So can you go back and tell us how that came about, what your background was with the magazine, how you learned about us, that article?
Speaker 2:was 30 years ago, almost exactly with Ben Hepnall on the cover. But before that I have had a longer history with the magazine. In the 80s, through Opera Circles, I met the founder of Opera Canada, the former Metropolitan Opera soprano, ruby Mercer, and I was just a fan. And I met her in a lineup getting tickets and stuff and I was just. You know, I was already an academic but I wasn't doing any music writing, but I was interested. I loved her radio program Opera Time.
Speaker 2:She had several programs over the years and so you know we chatted up and then she would invite me as her plus one. It is called ie. She would have two media tickets and then I would be the extra person. So yeah, so I befriended her and she encouraged me to go into writing. And in the early 90s I really started in earnest. And when she retired in 1992, first the magazine was taken over editorship by Harvey Shuzet, but then he died and then Wayne Gooding took over and Wayne accepted my first article, full-length article. Before that I had tiny tidbits here and there in a magazine about Teresa Stratas and so on, but the Hamner article 1995, and I haven't turned back since. I don't know how many hundreds of articles I have written for Opera Canada and elsewhere and I love it.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know how many total articles you've written either, but might be a very good trivia question for somebody to look for.
Speaker 2:I don't know where they are.
Speaker 1:I know that it is something that you still do for us. In fact, the upcoming issue which celebrates this year's Ruby Awards named in honor of founder Ruby Mercer. You do an interview in that issue with soprano Jane Archibald. Do you tend to write typically interviews?
Speaker 2:Yes, mostly. I would say 80-90%. You know, as a retired anthropologist what is anthropology but life history, and which involve interviewing people, right? So I just apply my anthropological technique to use it to interview singers. And I began interviewing singers Maureen Forrester, lois Marshall, the great Lois Marshall, pat Kern, I mean. In fact I interviewed a whole bunch, lot of older singers, particularly women, and apparently my anthropological interview technique went over well with them and they love being interviewed by me. I will say something that could be funny. I mean, you know a lot of these older singers that I interviewed. A few months or a few short years later they passed away. So I think now older singers are maybe a little bit hesitant to be interviewed by me.
Speaker 1:I will remember that, when giving it a chance, only young singers for interviews with Joseph, although, to be fair, in the last year you have interviewed Gerald Finlay for us and Gerald is still fine, for all that I've heard.
Speaker 2:So I interviewed him last year. He said he was 64. I said, oh, 64, and he's still singing fantastic. And I asked him how many more years do you want to sing? Oh, at least 10. So that means he's going to sing until 74.
Speaker 1:At least he said he should hold him to that at least, because he still sounds wonderful and he's so spectacular on stage that we want to keep him there as long as we selfishly can do so. Joseph.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I love interviewing singers because they have such a fascinating history and I guess they have a talent that I don't have. Let's just say I never had a voice that people would pay money to hear, so I admire them and some of my very best experiences are from interviewing singers.
Speaker 1:Are there any that you remember in particular?
Speaker 2:interviewing singers. Are there any that you remember in particular? Oh yeah, well, of course, ben being the first one. And then I interviewed Adrienne Pishanka. I interviewed oh my god, maureen Foster was extremely memorable. She was the first Whoopi's recipient and I was.
Speaker 2:I must tell this story because I was assigned to interview her. I called her, made an appointment, showed up in time, parked my car. She was living in the Performing Arts Lodge, which was a retired artist behind the O'Keeffe Center. I parked my car, I brought flowers for her, walked to PayPal. I parked my car, I brought flowers for her, walked to Pell and there was Maureen sitting in the street I mean standing in the street corner waiting for me. I thought how wonderful. So I went up to her. I said, oh hi, maureen. And I gave her the flowers and she said hi. And then she smiled and said, oh, beautiful flowers. And then she gave it back to me. She said it's not for me. I said yes, maureen, of course I got the flowers for you. She said, oh, thank you, she said, and she admired it some more and then eventually she said oh no, no, it's not for me. I said yes, maureen, I'm Joseph Stowe from Opera Canada. I'm here to interview you and she said, oh my God, picking me up shopping right now, I'm at the seat corner waiting for him.
Speaker 2:Well, she completely forgot about the interview. I should give a bit of a backstory, because by the summer of 2000, she was already fairly well advanced in her dementia. She had, I guess, alzheimer's. So she just didn't remember our appointment and Daniel would, and Daniel would come. You know, all of a sudden Daniel showed up and said oh, you guys go ahead, do the interview, I'll go and have a cup of coffee.
Speaker 2:So we went into the performing arts lounge, into the lounge, and Maureen said oh, shouldn't I have? Shouldn't the flowers be in water? I said yes, and then she said, oh, let me go and get a picture of water. And she laughed. I thought, oh my God, this is the last I will see of her. What's she doing back, believe it or not, with a picture of water? So we did the interview, but by then her memory was such that, no matter what I asked her, she always ends her answer with oh, I'm always prepared and I'm always on time. Conductors love me. No matter what I ask her, she has reverted back to that. So that article in the 2000 issue of Opera Canada was mostly me Access it on the Patreon at patreoncom.
Speaker 1:slash Opera canada. I joseph didn't warn me he was going to speak about that issue so, as he's been talking, I've been madly flipping through covers that would be found in volume 41, issue 3 from fall 2000 is the very, very first opera canada awards. They weren't even officially called the Rubies at that point. Yeah, so that issue that you're looking for for that interview with Maureen is Volume 43, issue 3, fall 2000.
Speaker 2:That was an unforgettable interview and of course since then I met her a few more times and it was within two years, then she two to three years after that. She then was moved to Belmont House, which was a retirement home, but she was on the Alzheimer's wing, the floor, Alzheimer's floor, and I would visit her together with a mutual friend, Ruth Morowitz, who was the widow of Oscar Morowitz and a good friend of Maureen Anyway. So I won't go on. I mean, there's plenty more about the Maureen story, but I won't.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that you speak about Maureen One of the things that I find really important about the back issues of Opera Canada magazine and as I look at them and as I see features with singers, I'm reminded of all of the people that we've lost from this scene in Canada. We've lost artists, singers, we've lost directors and really, really important leaders in this sector, and I think that that's something that's really important. One of the interviews, one of the articles that you wrote because it was less an interview than it was a tribute, but that I remember was the tribute that you wrote about Erin Wall shortly after her passing, soprano Erin Wall, and this would be in the Winter 2020 issue. So this is more recent than some of your other memories, but what can you tell us about your memories of Erin Wall?
Speaker 2:I have very, very sweet memories of Erin. I actually, you know, I was going through the bad issues and I found my short article on her. It was together with some other singers, around 2003 or 2004. She was just starting out from Chicago. She was still when I wrote that article. She was still in the last months of her time at the Ryan Center in Chicago Live Opera and then she made it big very quickly.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know, her debut was as Donna Anna in Don Giovanni, unplanned because the prima donna at Chicago Lyric was Kalita Matila. She was sick and then Erin stepped in. Can you imagine starting at the top and then since then I've been following her career all that time and I've written an article on her in maybe 2015 or 2014,. And her health has never been really very good and I remember she really was uncomfortable talking about her health but she eventually told me, I think around 2015,. At the end of the interview she hesitated but she said that she had MS. But it turned out that MS did not kill her, it was metastasized breast cancer. Very, very sad 2000, 2020.
Speaker 1:Goodness, yeah, and she was quite young, because I think she was probably in her 40s yes, 44,. Yeah, her mid-40s. So it was a great loss. I remember hearing her sing the title role in Arabella and being absolutely spellbound.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I saw her sing Arabella both in Santa Fe and at the COC Wonderful.
Speaker 1:One of this year's Ruby recipients in fact was opposite her in that production at the COC, because she she said Bella and Jane Archibald was Danka.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it was. It was quite. It was quite a production and the production itself was beautiful. I remember it very, very strongly because I was, in fact, living in Saskatchewan at the time but happened to be in town when it was playing. So I went to see it and I'm so thrilled that I got to hear Erin sing a role that was so amazing and so much part of her, really her prime repertoire, so it was really incredible. You mentioned knowing Ruby Mercer, who was the founder. Ruby Mercer is one of those almost legendary, mythical features in the Canadian opera scene. In addition to founding Opera Canada magazine, she was the founder of the Canadian Children's Opera Company as well, which is, of course, still going strong and is a really, really exciting institution. In addition to performing their own work, they perform as the Children's Chorus for COC Productions. So it is really an exciting. Ruby has left an exciting legacy, which we, of course, honor each year with the Rubies. Do you have any memories of Ruby that you would like to share, which?
Speaker 2:are oh, I have fantastic memories.
Speaker 1:Let's go that way which you're able to share publicly, joseph.
Speaker 2:I have to mind my P's and Q's, everything about Ruby I love. And, as I said, you know, I befriended her and she encouraged me to do writing and she would invite me to go to concerts and operas with her. I remember one time, afterwards, often we would go out to eat, but then I suggested, ruby, why don't we go back to your place, I will cook you supper. I mean, of course, my ulterior motive other than wanting to show that I can cook, but also, to you know, to look at her memorabilia. That's what I wanted to do. She lived on Walnut Road and so well anyway, cooking part of it was actually more difficult than I thought because she had nothing in her fridge, hardly anything.
Speaker 2:And so I was looking at her memorabilia, her scrapbooks, and I saw in the scrapbook a big yellow piece of newspaper. It says Foundling, now famous mad soprano. And I thought Ruby Foundling, now famous mad soprano. And I thought Ruby foundling, now famous mad soprano. And she said yes. She said I was found on the doorstep of a Mr and Mrs Mercer in Athens, ohio. So she didn't know her biological parents. She was a foundling. You know just that alone. And then from that on, I have had many more different memories of Ruby, very colorful woman, always a smile, always positive. I loved her radio program, opera program and she really is like that in real life.
Speaker 1:If you, for listeners who want to learn more or hear more anecdotes about Ruby. The spring 1999 issue, volume 40, issue one of that year, was in fact her memorial issue and there's about 10 to 12 pages of some of the brightest Canadian opera and music lights writing their memories of Ruby Mercer. It's a very, very special issue and well worth looking up in our archives on Patreon. Some of the people that write about Ruby for that issue include Louis Quilico and William Littler, who was the longtime music critic for the Toronto Star, and Lotfi Mansouri, who ran the Canadian Opera Company for many years before moving on to San Francisco. The people who share their memories of Ruby are really many of the primary figures of opera in this country.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I like to end these podcasts. I didn't warn you this, joseph, and this may be hard. I like to end this podcast by doing a really quick speed round, and so I'm going to ask some short questions and you say the fastest answer that comes to your mind oh, I see, oh, my God. So, almost without explanation, the first thing you think of okay, what's your favorite opera?
Speaker 2:Oh, La Gioconda, isn't it weird? That's the last thing that we talked about, I guess.
Speaker 1:Well, it's the first opera that you saw. Do you think that's the last thing that we talked about, I guess? Well, it's the first opera that you saw. Do you think that's the reason?
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe, but I'm also a Wagner writer, you know. So I love Parsifal, I love Demise Singer, the Friggenhollander, I love you know.
Speaker 1:Do you have a favorite recording of it?
Speaker 2:Oh, the Tabaldi recording, of course 1967. Of course, oh, the Tabaudi recording, of course 1967. Of course, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:That, of course, also brings back memories of your first seeing it. I'm almost afraid to ask if I asked your favorite singer ever?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's hard. I really I'm not sure I have, I'm not sure I can nail it down to one. I mean, you know singers, some are great artists, Some have great voices, you know, some are so beautiful, you know. So they all have their positive attributes. You know things that I love, so it's impossible really for me to pick one.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I notice is you write reviews for us because you also do reviews for Opera Canada and right now I think I have you assigned to do all the Canadian Opera Company reviews you did last season and for this coming season as well, which is a real treat for our readers. But you talk about some have beautiful voices, some have really are lovely artists. What is it that you look for, Joseph? What makes a fabulous opera singer for you?
Speaker 2:A fabulous opera season. A little bit of German opera, a bit one French opera, tons of Italian operas. And the great singers, I mean today. I mean they are always funny. I'm afraid I'm sounding like an old fogey, but I think that the singers today are wonderful. But I really miss singers of the past. If I had to choose, you know, I mean today, like people like I don't know Jonas Kaufman is fantastic, freddy DiTomaso, you know. Michael Fabiano, people like that, you know. But how can I forget Franco Corelli, mario Delmonaco, people like Giuseppe Stefano?
Speaker 1:You have a strong affection for tenors, after interviewing all of your divas, and I appreciate that I do.
Speaker 2:You know, the funny thing is, tenors are great to the ear but not great subjects for interviews. They are the real devils. Honestly, I've interviewed hundreds of people and I think there are just a few that were not absolutely perfect, and they are mostly tenors.
Speaker 1:That's fascinating. I won't ask. You may have to cut that out too. We'll not ask for the name, but I will say that Tahu Matheson at Opera Australia, with whom I was speaking in the spring I got to interview Tahu actually said that Kaufman was one of the nicest people that he'd worked with too.
Speaker 2:I interviewed him in the cafeteria of the Munich Opera and he was very nice. That was 2011. He had just come back from a vocal crisis. He agreed to the interview and then, immediately within an hour, I got an email from his management. He said Karl Mann would not answer questions about his health or questions about his family Health, being that he just recovered from illness and family I guess he had just divorced.
Speaker 1:Well, but nonetheless, I'm sure you found wonderful things to chat about. Oh yeah, joseph is always a great writer for people who read our magazine. There is, as I've mentioned already, an interview that Joseph did in the upcoming fall issue the fall 2025 issue of Opera Canada magazine, which should be on newsstands around the beginning of October. It celebrates all of this year's Ruby recipients, so I really hope you'll pick it up and enjoy that as much as actually I enjoy the issue quite a bit. Joseph's writing is wonderful and the other writers who do the features about this year's recipients are also really lovely writers, both at the latter stages of their career, joseph, but also a couple of writers at the very early stages of their career. So it's a wonderful, wonderful issue to pick up and read and it, of course, will also be available on Patreon. Once again, the address is patreoncom slash opera canada to access our complete archives as of Thursday September 25th. So please join us.
Speaker 1:Free members at Patreon can see all the covers and all of the tables of contents. There are bonuses, of course, on Patreon for paid members. At $3 a month, you get to take part in polls to help us shape the future of the magazine. You get early access to some of our features, like Artist of the Week, and you also receive, with your $3 membership, you get access to every past issue, except for the four most recent issues. In order to do that, you have to become a member at our highest class, which is only $5 a month. That's less than you're likely to spend at Starbucks these days. And here's the bonus that I hinted at the beginning is the bonus that I hinted at the beginning If you use the code OPERAGLASSES50, that is all uppercase, no lowercase letters at all, no spaces OPERAGLASSES50.
Speaker 1:If you use that, you get 50% off your Patreon for your first month. So please join us Once again. This is Michael Jones for the Opera Glasses podcast. Joseph, thank you so so much for being with us today. It is, as always, it's a real treat for me to get to speak to you, hear your stories and to just marvel in the knowledge of the singers that you knew, that you've met, and the stories that you have to tell about them. So thank you for sharing those with our listeners.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I had a great, a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and thanks to all of you for listening to us today Once again. This is Michael Jones with the Opera Glasses podcast.